Iran: Three Years Since Mahsa Amini

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Well, today I am thrilled to have Lana Silk, the CEO of Transform Iran, here with me today. And Lana, I just want to welcome you. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Thank you, Nicole. [00:00:25] Speaker B: You know, it's, it's funny because we were talking about, you know, the purpose of this interview originally was going to be to talk about. We are coming up on the third anniversary of the death of Gina Mahsa Amini. And I do want to talk about that, but I want to talk about you first of all and your organization. As I was researching for this interview also, I just found your source story, your testimony and your parents story. So powerful and, and amazing. And so we definitely need to, to get, get your history. And then of course, I, I also want to mention, because we have a very big Armenian contingent following this, this, this show, this podcast, this channel, whatever, because of my connection. But so I found out also that you're. You are Armenian as well as Iranian. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Yes, I am Armenian. Both my parents are Armenian. I was born and raised in Iran, so I'm an Armenian Iranian. And yeah, we were just talking earlier. Being Armenian is an everyday experience for me. And my husband is British, but my parents and I still speak in Armenian. My children love Armenian food. [00:01:46] Speaker B: That's amazing. Oh, my gosh. Are you teaching your kids Armenian? [00:01:51] Speaker A: Do you know what, Nicole? That's a long story. I tried so hard, but I failed. It was difficult when you don't speak it in your home. My husband doesn't speak it. We never achieved it. And then I don't want to have to take a lot of time over it for the sake of your show, but actually we found out that my son had hearing difficulties, my eldest, so even though I was religiously speaking Armenian to him, and every time any of my sisters and my parents or cousins would speak to him, I would be the Armenian police. Now you only speak Armenian to my child. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:02:26] Speaker A: But it was no point because he couldn't hear us and we didn't know. And then we, you know, he's had a miracle story in operations and he's totally fine. But by the time his hearing was fixed, he was immersed in school and, you know, English school, friends, education, and I just, it was an uphill battle, unfortunately. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Well, we're going to go totally off track now, but I also have a child with special needs also. My, my oldest and you speech is, is the most impacted, I would say. And so we also dropped, you know, the, the dream of our Armenian. It's enough that we're, you know, we're English speaking family, but we're living in Israel and so he's going to Israeli schools and so if anything, his second language is Hebrew. So. Yeah, but one day I hope for a miracle on the language end. But all right, but anyway, please tell me, tell. But tell us about, like, about being born, growing up in Iran and your, your parents Armenian, but they're very. And very strong Christians and not exactly in a, in a, in an easy situation. So tell us a little bit about that. [00:03:38] Speaker A: That's right, yeah. My grandfather Seth, he had an incredible encounter with the Lord early on in his marriage. And he was filled with the spirit. And it kind of realized that the life that he was living wasn't a replica of what he was reading about in Acts. And he wanted to have an experience of everything that God had for him. And that led him down the path of a long fast and a whole experience with the Lord that ended up with meetings in their home where the whole family would gather and pray and worship together and try to, you know, experience all that God had for them. And, you know, that's attractive. People started getting drawn to that, getting saved. A lot of Armenians in their community, but also increasingly Persian background. You know, Iranian Muslims were coming and getting saved and healed in these meetings. And that is what actually started the church that is now growing and thriving in Iran today was born in those meetings in their home. Four years every night they had those meetings. And my dad was six when it started, so they grew up in that. And my mum got saved through those meetings. And really both of them, their whole lives has been an extension of what they experienced there. And then the ministry, they came out of it to their own group, the Armenian community there, and then overflow into the Muslim background. People around them, their friends, their neighbors, their colleagues who were all getting saved. So really exciting time. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Well, okay, so that was probably before then the revolution that this started. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Yes, it was. So we talk about the small sort of awakening that happened in those meetings, but then the sort of extra layer of information there is that the vast majority of people who were really experiencing God's move were Armenians at that time. And the to reach Iranian Muslims was. Was hard work. They were. There were several that got saved, but dad was saying if we had a year where one or two or three got saved, that would be considered a harvest that was a huge win for them. It was hard ground. There was a lot of opposition and even apathy and lack of interest to this Christian faith. It was really after the Ayatollah took charge and The Islamic regime was established that suddenly an awakening happened in the Iranian, the Persian Iranian people that where they realize actually the Islam that they thought they wanted isn't the Islam that they really wanted. And they started looking for something different. And that's the awakening that we're experiencing today. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so what happened with you that you ended up leaving Iran? If you can, you know, briefly tell us about that. And then I want to come back to just, you know, what we know about what is happening there today, since you are involved in that. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yes. Now we're fast Forward into the 80s. So the Islamic Republic was established in 1979. I was born 78, right when it was all kicking off. So I've only ever known that version of Iran. And we had went almost immediately, went into the war with Iraq, which is senseless, needless war that killed so many people and really never resolved the issue that it all started with. And that finished in around 88. And it was that time that the Lord began to speak to my parents and said, I need you to leave. And it was a very confusing message from the Lord for them because they'd lived through a war, they'd lived through a revolution, they'd lived many years in a country where there was no interest in Muslims, no real interest in Muslims for the Gospel. And now suddenly there was a huge appetite to hear about the Christian faith. And in that context, when persecution is increasing, increasing, but also interest is increasing, the war is now over. The. There's. There's so much to be done in the country. Now the Lord is saying, you need to leave. So it was a real time of praying and seeking and making sure that heard properly. They both went and did a separate fast for a month. They prayed and journaled and just on their own with the Lord and then came and compared to make sure they were really hearing the same thing. Turned out they were. They took it to the overseeing pastor and he said, no, you've heard wrong, we need you here. And they were delighted to hear that and said, great, yeah, we'll stay here. That's what we want. He then has a dream and the Lord speaks to him and says, no, they need to leave pretty quickly. So they did. He came and woke us up early hours in the morning, said, no, you heard right. There's actually a real sense of urgency to it. I don't really know why, but I can confirm that you, you need to leave. So we did. I was nine and it took about a month. We just packed up, gave. Gave everything away, really. You can't take anything with you. They search you on the way out and left not knowing why, just knowing that God was telling us to. So really, that's much more my parents journey. Of course I remember it. I remember the process of goodbyes, but it was their obedience to the Lord that they came out. And then after they came out, God spoke to them and said, the church is about to be driven underground. Persecution is going to go to a whole new level, and I'm going to need you here to resource and strengthen and nurture and help grow what will be this very exciting, thriving, but very persecuted church. [00:09:01] Speaker B: Wow. That's unbelievable. And before that, I thought I read somewhere that your father had been arrested a couple times before that. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. This is before the Islamic Republic. And I just find that really. Of course there's been a lot of arrests since, but really, the. The illustration there is just how closed the people were at that time to the Gospel. He was arrested and imprisoned twice before 78. And the reason was because he was evangelizing people in the streets, and they did not want to hear anything he had to say. Now, if you go to the streets, you risk your own life, but people will bite your hand off. They want to know what you're saying. [00:09:40] Speaker B: Then. [00:09:40] Speaker A: It was such a closed environment that people would turn him into the police and say, you need to arrest this guy. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:09:47] Speaker A: So it was a totally different environment. Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. All right. So the prison he experienced, would you say that's comparable to what we're hearing about today? Like, is it the same prison and is it the same system? [00:10:03] Speaker A: It has got worse, Much worse. Since he wasn't tortured, none of that. And it wasn't long term. In fact, one of the times when he was arrested, it was with a friend. There were three of them, an Armenian friend and an American. And they were kept in cells in the precinct. And the American consulate, I believe, got hold of it, you know, realized that an American citizen had been arrested and got hold of the police and said, you need to release this guy. Like, this is not in a. What are you doing? And so they came to release them and told them why that we can't keep the American in holding. Like, we got to get you guys out. And my dad and his friend, his Armenian friend, who were in the same cell at the time, were worshiping and just, you know, they were young as well, and, oh, this is like Paul and Silas. Like, we're. This is great. Let's worship God. Let's see what else happens. And so they actually said to the prison guard, you know, we're, we're okay here. We're praising God and we are actually settled in bed and could we just wait and leave tomorrow? [00:11:08] Speaker B: Like, like it's a hotel. [00:11:11] Speaker A: It was just like a spiritual experience for them that they, that had considered it such an honor that someone would want to arrest them because they're too active talking about Jesus. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Oh, that's unbelievable. Wow. So, so your family when you, you left, but you didn't leave because you, you started a ministry, you know your parents and you've carried it on. And so tell us about you evolution of Transform Iran and what's your goal? What's your mission of your organization? [00:11:46] Speaker A: So really it has been a case of following God's lead step by step. So often it happens, doesn't it, when God has the whole picture, but he doesn't overwhelm us with the whole picture at the beginning and allows us to step into the fullness of what he has for us. And I can certainly see that he even. Well, personally I see that, but as a ministry, I see how God's done that. Where initially it was just leave, and then we left. And then this is why, you know, you've got, you're going to have work to do. My parents are visionaries. They're very gifted in innovating and pioneering ways of ministry and inspiring people. So their first thought was, okay, we don't know what this is going to look like, but we're going to need people. So let's gather all the others that we know that have left in the last several years and let's pray together. So they started contacting all of their friends who had, you know, a lot of people left in those first 10 years. A lot of Christians left thinking, well, this, there's no future for us here. Let's go make a life somewhere else. And it wasn't a joyful leaving. Almost everyone I found, I can't think of an exemption. Everyone that I know that left at that time left with a heavy heart. Their heart was still in Iran, their life was still in Iran. But they could see that things were changing and they thought it would be better to get out. And so those were the people that my parents got in touch with and said, look, you know, God is doing something and it's going to need us to come together and pray and see what he is doing. And my memories of those years, my preteens and early teens, was us traveling as a family all across Europe, gathering the Iranian believers In Denmark, in Holland, in Germany, in Norway, in Sweden. I mean, all over Europe. We would go from country to country, hold events, pray and worship together, seek the Lord together. And a movement began as people got excited to see, actually, there's so much that we can still do from here. We began to strategize in ways that we can reach. What does the digital world offer us? What technologies are available? My dad pioneered Farsi Christian TV at a time when a lot of people were laughing at him, saying, you're getting ahead of yourself. There's no need for anything like that for Iran. But he saw, he knew that we were going to need that kind of tool to communicate with the masses who are going to be hungry for the Gospel. And so it turned into something where people were envisioned to find a way to still reach their country. And only really, as it grew, did it take on form. You know, people would say, okay, right, there's so many of us now. We look to you for leadership. We need a name, an identity. You know, let's. Let's formalize this. And it was really step by step in meeting needs that it began to take its structure and its identity. And as new, innovative ideas were formed. Apologetics, trauma counseling, ministry to the children. And it just grew as needs were met. Digital church. And the vision has always been Iran reaching Iran, seeing transformation across Iran, reaching all the people of Iran, considering all the various languages, levels of education. There's a lot of illiteracy, considering the gender needs. You know, women have all different issues to deal with in Iran. So making sure that we're communicating in a way that is heard physically, whether it's TV or radio, but also heard and understood by the heart, that it resonates with the person and they're able to respond to it. So that's how it's grown. [00:15:09] Speaker B: That's amazing. And this is a great way to transition also into the news, which I also want to talk about a little bit. But, you know, one of the hardest things, especially, you know, I'm reporting from Jerusalem, you know, and. And there's always something going on between Israel and Iran, and. And we hear of the uprisings, and we have a lot here from the. The women Life Freedom movement. There's murals around. Around Israel that were hung by an Iranian American who wanted to, you know, honor the movement and the women. And. And so we have a lot in our minds all the time in our consciousness about what is happening in Iran. But as a reporter, I find it so difficult to be able to verify information. And so I wanted to ask you about that. First of all, you talked about the church and the underground church. What do you know about what is, what is happening, first of all, with the, with the gospel, with believers, with, with the church. And, and I, I just also read that, I think it was just last week that 53 Christians were arrested in, in Iran. And, and what, so what's, tell me about what you find, what you know, what's happening from the, in the church and, and how you believe, like what you, you know, what are you seeing and hearing. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So the dynamics have changed a lot since June with the 12 Day War. Though the term 12 Day War does amuse me a little bit because it's more like a five decade war. But the 12 days of active engagement, Iran, we're exchanging fire. But since then the government has been extremely paranoid, really in the way that it's trying to weed out dissidents. So we're in a different stage now than we were earlier this year. It has been difficult for Christians all the way since the revolution. It has been increasingly difficult as the government has considered the Christians a greater and greater threat. Of course, the Iranian government makes no secret of the fact that they want to wipe Israel off the map. So that has been, that has been their singular focus. And people sometimes talk to me about peace. Do you want peace? Well, I, I say, well, we need to define peace. Of course I want peace. But the kind of peace that Israel wants is a different kind of peace to the kind of peace that Iran, Iranian leaders want. You know, Iranian leaders trying to peacefully coexist with Israel. Israel is happy to peacefully coexist. These are different objectives. So when a country is so focused on wiping another country out, then we're talking about a totally different kind of dynamic. You can't just say, okay, now we'll both calm down a little bit. It's not that kind of situation. And I'm sure we'll talk a little about that more again, Nicole. But that has affected the Christians because the Iranians couple Christians together with Jews. They call them the Zionists. And as their offensive towards increase, Israel ramps up, and it has done really consistently ever since 1979. Then the Israelis and the Jews take that as well because they want to make that association and they want to get rid of anybody that might be sympathetic to Israel as a country. And now even more so since the war, because they want to know how is it that Israel was so effective? Israel was very targeted, very precise, got a lot done in a short space of time, and The Iranians want to know why. And as far as they're concerned, there are dissidents that are leaking information that are helping the Israelis with their objectives. And their immediate assumption will be that will be Jews and Christians. And so they are focused in bringing these people in, interrogating them, arresting them. They've executed some to try to weed them out. And bear in mind that Khomeini himself was a dissident in 1977-78. In the years leading up to that, he was busy wrapping up support for an anti monarchy movement in Iran led to the revolution. So Iranians are very aware that a dissident with the right ear and the right people listening with the right kind of support can change a whole country's leadership. And they don't want that to happen to them. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Well, it's unbelievable. So there these Christians are they, they're being arrested as possible collaborators or spies for Israel. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Exactly. That's the accusation. Acting against national interest, cooperating with the Zionists, just any threat to national security. I mean, it's the same sort of vibe all the way through. And we have people in our movement who've now formally been charged with these kinds of accusations and are in hiding right now. You know, they'll have the court hearing, they'll be imprisoned and then there's, you're waiting for your final sentencing and you gotta get out as quick as you can because then that's it. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. It is. So this is ramped up since June. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Okay. And then can you take, take us back also? Three, three years. Like I said. We're coming up on, on the unfortunate anniversary of. Three year anniversary of Gina Masamini. I liked. I also want to use her, her name, Gina, her, She's Kurdish, right? Her Kurdish name. Because I know that was like not allowed to be official or whatever the rules are there, but. And since that's her death sparked what I guess people were hoping was going to be the revolution, the, the next revolution that overturned the regime. And it seems to have tamped down. But like I said, I don't, I don't know what, you know, what accurate information I can get. If there's a controlled media, it's not a free press. And also I, I don't read Persian and I'm not sure who to follow, who I can trust to follow. So what information are you getting and what information? Like if you can give us the. What's happening for the past three years? It seems like there was a peak and maybe another one, but where Are we now with, with, with the protests? And then there were arrests and there were many executions. Where do we stand now in, in this whole timeline? [00:21:56] Speaker A: Yes. So, first of all, addressing the issue of free press and accurate information. We do have a small news network ourselves, Farsi, Christianity, fcnn. So if any of your listeners are looking for accurate news, it's very Iran focused, then you can get that it is in Persian, but Google Translate can help sometimes. And I do a lot of interviews with CNN and I do trust them as a new source. Their Middle east correspondence are well connected. So there are ways. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Cnn, cnn. [00:22:30] Speaker A: Yes, cnn. Christine. Yeah, there are others too, but those are the ones that I am aware of or interact with, I should say. But in terms of what's happened, yes, Mahsa Amini's death, and Gina, of course was her Kurdish name, was sadly not unusual, but it was that one that sort of broke the camel's back. And people just thought enough is enough. And you're right, they increased in volume and quantities. A number of people took to the streets and younger and younger people, school, you know, teenage schoolgirls. And of course, horrific that things happen to them as the government tried to stamp that out. There has been a really interesting atmosphere change since then and a sort of a whole journey. People went from a lot of hope and a lot of courage in seeing each other, seeing that actually there are a lot of people who are prepared to take the same risks that I'm about to take. And that gives you courage. You think, okay, well, it's worth it because one person doing something crazy and suicidal is going to end in just the death of one person. But if now 10,000 people are doing that, that's a little harder to silence. And as people started to see that others were prepared to take those kinds of risks, everyone had wanted the change, everyone knew that everyone wanted the change. But now people were willing to do something about it. And so you could see that increased courage and hope that took charge really, and inspired a lot of incredibly heroic actions that really made bold statements and I think still continues to inspire people because people know what's possible now that went to a, through to a whole round of horrible torture, rape, maiming. I mean, it was just horrific what the government did to those people. Open firing into people who are marching intentionally trying to go for the eyes of the women. There was a lot of, yes, I mean, it was just horrible. And so people went through a period of mourning and struggling and figuring out how to deal with that, but still try to fight on I think the general sentiment was we have paid such a high price now that it would be unthinkable to stop completely. And so there has been an increased sense of we're dead anyway. Like, what's this going to take? Defiance. Openly speaking against the government out in public. I had a friend that visited Iran and he told me that his greatest sort of impression of change was that he would sit in a taxi and the taxi driver would tell him all the negative feelings that he has about the government. He'd go to a shop and the shop keeper would talk about the government, you know, or anti sentiments hairdresser and so on. And people are just, they're not hiding their resentment anymore. And then on top of that, the defiance in the women, of course, we had some very famous images of. There was a lady, a college student, who walked around in her underwear. You know, it was just right, whatever it takes. No, we don't even care anymore. And then just a couple days ago, one of my colleagues sent me some videos from Iran and I actually wondered if it was Italy. I said I couldn't believe, because Iranians have sort of Italian complexion. I said, is this actually Iran? Because it was cafes and streets and not a hijab in sight. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Wow. [00:26:01] Speaker A: It's unthinkable. But, you know, when there's enough people that say, yeah, I'm not wearing that anymore. You can't just arrest everyone off the streets. Like, your prisons are out of space. That's what happened in 2022, that they ran out of space in their prisons. They started releasing prisoners of other crimes so that they could find space for the protesters in their prisons. And they started opening up clandestine prisons in other places. They became infamous for their sort of being centers of torture where people didn't even know where their children were because they weren't even in regular prisons. There was no space. So there's a capacity issue. You can't just arrest 2 million people now there's loads of people walking around with a complete defiance for the morality police. So we watch and wait. Iranians are not armed. They don't have the capacity in and of themselves to overthrow their regime. But with a little help and with a little more courage, I think it's possible. [00:26:59] Speaker B: And on top of all of that that you're talking about, in the midst of maybe this, this political suffering and religious persecution, there's also, we've been reading about the economic problems like electricity, water during the hottest time of the year that, you know, just unavailable. Are you hearing from people as well? Like what they are challenged with on a, on a daily basis. Like is this hitting, how is this hitting people? [00:27:30] Speaker A: It's really become a struggle for survival on every level. So food has become more scarce and therefore more expensive. Not everything is available. Costs of things have increased phenomenally. In one day the cost of bread shot up 70%. You know, and that's just one day. And it continues. Gas is limited and harder to get. So all of this affects people's ability to travel, to get to work. Some places of business have shut down, some people are out of work. So income is limited, reduced, even lost in places. But cost of living has gone up. Landlords are taking advantage, increasing prices. The government recently said that they're not allowed to increase. I think it was more than 30 or 50% because there were some phenomenal hikes, but they still do. And we have people who can no longer now afford to stay in their homes or pay their utilities. Let buying food and then you consider long term illnesses, people who are depending on things like insulin, you know, and those costs are increasing. Where there's medical emergencies then happening, people can't afford to buy the medicines that they need for their long term care, let alone emergency treatments. So it's really difficult. And then you add to that water shortages, electricity shortages, everything is being monitored so people can't use too much to try to make it last. You know, some of this is a result of the war in June, some of this is the result of sanctions a little less. So some this is, a lot of this is a result of the corruption and greed of the government and the money that is in the country not going to the places it needs. You know, after they that a war in June, what should have been spent on infrastructure and aid was spent in rearming and preparing for round two. So people just aren't getting the help that they need from their own government who's made it very clear that the objective is hitting Israel rather than helping its own people. And so you have that, that desperate need that's not being met. And of course outside agencies aren't really able to get in. Very few can. We have an OFAC license and we do help where we can, but we're dependent on funds to be able to do it. And as we receive it, we channel it in. But it's, it's a really, really difficult environment. And I got to tell you, I think there's a spiritual dynamic here too, Nicole. You know, the country has been focused on cursing Israel for almost 50 years now. The word of God is very clear about the consequences of cursing Israel, cursing Jerusalem. And actually, we put out a TV program earlier in February, and we did a repeat with updates just now. It's airing currently a series of programs. It's titled War or Peace, Win or Leave. And it really is to help the Christians in the country make sense of all of this. But also speaking to the government and saying, look, this is what the Christian holy book says. You curse Israel, you become a curse yourself. You have spent 50 years causing seeding spiritual curses on your own nation that we have to stop this drought. All these limitations. There are spiritual dynamics at play here, too. So we wait and see now what will happen. [00:30:47] Speaker B: It's during the 12 Day War, as it has been called, as you mentioned. It's kind of a funny name, but I heard news and maybe you can confirm that it seemed like the Iranian people were kind of cheering Israel on to destroy the regime. And I don't know if you can confirm that. But also, was there a sense of disappointment then when, you know, like, Israel, Israel and America were just like, okay, we're done, and it just ended without any overthrow of the current regime? [00:31:22] Speaker A: Yes, Huge, huge disappointment. At the beginning. There were. There were celebrations immediately. The first day that it happened, I took an interview with cnn and I was sharing with them the immediate reactions we'd had from the country. And there were people sending notes of congratulations to Netanyahu, thanking him for the courage and action that he'd taken. The memes were sort of heartbreaking and comical at the same time of people making sort of happy celebratory jokes and cartoons about what was happening. Like, this is great. Finally, you know, and I saw videos of people standing on their balconies raising glasses to Israel as the bombs were coming down. People letting off fireworks in celebration. I mean, it was almost euphoria. Finally, there was a video that came to me of a group of young people having a party, literally celebration. And the backdrop was, look, look what's happening. It's raining down. This is great. And then as a few days went into it, sort of six, seven days in, it started to change theme to come on now, don't stop now. And one of the ones that really struck a chord in me was a series of images of Mr. Bean, if you know, that character, and of just all the different physical poses he was in as he was bored, waiting, like, looking at his watch, lying on the floor, like, counting sheep, like, come on. And the caption at the top said, every Iranian now waiting for Netanyahu to finish the job, it was just. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Wow, that's unbelievable. [00:32:53] Speaker A: I mean, it's surreal almost, isn't it? Yeah, seem to believe it. But when it stopped, I have to say there was so much disappointment. There was a feeling of being let down almost because the Iranian people can't do anything without help. And so much ground was taken, but that ground has almost completely been lost now because it wasn't, it wasn't enough to stop anything. Then the nuclear program goes on. The religious leadership was totally untouched. The military leadership at the top was taken out. Well, it's all just been filled in again. I mean, it, it created a power vacuum, it created some tension, but nothing that was, wasn't fixable within a short space of time to get everyone back on track. And all that money that was spent on fighting Israel and sort of draining their military resources was all then spent again in rearming and preparing for whatever might come next. And on top of that, now you have a government that's been humiliated and is defiant and wounded and is saying, you know, now we look inside our country, who was it that was against us that allowed this to happen? So actually Iranians were a lot worse off after that than they were before. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Wow, that's really heavy actually. That's such a sad consequence and outcome of the war. And it's just so ironic because as I'm sitting here not two hours from an ongoing war that Israel has, where the people clearly are not cheering on Israel, you know, to, to continue in its much more confined space and just to hear that the Iranian people were, like you said, you said earlier, they're not armed, so they're just existing on their courage and their hope, you know, for, for a change. And, and when Israel came along with very big weapons to, you know, back, that was, that was a great hope. But so, but we, you know, we don't depend on Israel and we, we depend on God. So maybe you can leave us with some, some hope of where the people go now. Like what, what's, what's your hope for the people? And what do you, what are you seeing transpire and come out of this in the next season? [00:35:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think in that case, Nicole, we separate the spiritual and the political dynamics, don't we? Politically we want change and I believe that change will come. I believe that there is enough momentum now that one way or another, this is not a long term government in Iran today. But we don't know what price will be paid by the people to get us there. But spiritually, I think hope is actually Even greater, because sadly, it's in these times of great physical struggle and persecution and oppression, and really not just by Christians. Now, every Iranian is suffering one way or another. So in that kind of context, people really ask the important questions and they look for truth. It's, you know, that sort of image of that, the desert and the oasis that you thirsty and you know that you're thirsty and you know that you need water and you have to find the living source. And praise God that He is present and able. He is revealing himself to people up and down the country all the time. He doesn't need us to do any. We talked about not depending on Israel. Now God doesn't even depend on us as people to get the job done, but he's so kind to involve us so that we have the joy or the adventure of seeing what he is doing. But he's demonstrated in Iran that he is perfectly capable of drawing people to himself. And we have so many testimonies of people having direct encounters, visions, dreams, miraculous healings, where they have no idea that Jesus is God. They've never heard the gospel, they've never read a Bible, and they have that experience first, and then they go looking and trying to make sense of what happened to them. So in those cases and in the cases of people who are looking for something different, we as a church need to be loud and present. So when they look, they find. And by God's grace, we're doing our best to do that. We're making sure we use every kind of media so that if they go on satellite TV or if they go online, whatever way they start looking, if they're scanning through radio stations, they'll find the gospel. And then we're there with a network of churches, with a digital church network as well, a ton of resources to catch them, the other side of it, speak with them, disciple them, mentor them, and they are turning. They're turning to God. And actually our difficulty as a ministry continues to be meeting the need in that there's just so much of it. We're not convincing people. People are convinced we're drawing them to Jesus and trying to keep up with the demands. So God is doing an amazing thing and spiritually, change is happening in Iran and the church just needs to be ready to respond to it as the, as the opportunity increases. [00:38:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, your, Your passion and your, your fire are so infectious. But I have, I have to ask you, because I've interviewed other Iranians as well. Are you, you're, you're so upfront and Forward about what you want to see here. Are you also under threat? Have you ever been threatened? Like I know the irgc, IRCG or GCG is all over and I mean, yeah, like what about you? Like are you. Where do you fear for your personal safety? [00:38:41] Speaker A: Not at this point. I haven't had any personal threats yet. I imagine they're coming. I think the government is more interested in my father right now. He's had plenty of threats. We know that he's blacklisted did and they want to silence him. They don't want the international bad press of killing high profile Christians, particularly outside the country. They've not done that to date. They've done many things inside the country, but outside the country they haven't. Now closer to home in Turkey and countries around Iran where they have a more physical reach, we've seen some very unpleasant things happen, but a lot of it is really pressure to get people back to Iran. That's when they really deal with them. So for the vast majority of activists, particularly Christian activists outside Iran, the danger would be if you were to go back to the country. So right now we are just busy raising our voices, being a voice for those who cannot speak for themselves, advocating. I don't know that a threat would silence any of my colleagues or any of other ministries I know of that are focused on what we believe needs to happen. But so far, by God's grace, we're fine. [00:39:57] Speaker B: All right, we'll be praying for you. And tell me where can people connect? Where can people learn more about what you do and more about you and your story? [00:40:07] Speaker A: So our website is transform Iran.com. we have lots of testimonies on there, descriptions of the various areas of ministry. We've actually just launched a Christian AI tool that helps accelerate and scale up discipleship and counseling. And it's available in 256 odd languages. So you can go and try it out in your own language and see some of the things that we're doing that helps people connect with the gospel in a way that's quick and interactive and safe. So go check some of those things out and then through our website you can sign up to our newsletter and that's the best way to engage initially because you know, we need people to pray, we need people to know what's happening and we're talking about, you know, having word from the street, knowing what's really going on or we'll tell you what's really going on, including the Christian perspective, the testimonies. So it comes out once a month on email. I encourage your listeners to catch that. Pray for us. And if the Lord inspires you to support financially, then we're a nonprofit and we, we depend on that help. So see what God will lead you to do. [00:41:12] Speaker B: That's fantastic. And I'm going to be checking out. Is it Farsi Christian News? Is that the. [00:41:17] Speaker A: And yeah, it's a spin on CNN.com. yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Okay, great. So, so I'll actually, I can, I can include a link in, in the description here so that people can just click on it and get to it. But. Well, I mean, I have learned so much and I just really enjoy talking to you and I have many, many more questions. I hope we can talk again sometime. And I really, I just have to thank you. Thank you so much for this. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Thank you for the opportunity. Yes. Nicole, let's do round two. I'm sure the news will keep us on our toes over the coming weeks. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Oh, that is, the only thing is certain is that there will be more news. So that's for sure. But. Okay, Lana, thank you so much. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Sam.